WATCH POP

After reading the latest issue of a watch magazine, I have falen in love with the 1815. What are some of the feelings out there as a "first Lange". Also would you buy and 1815 or an FP Journe Octa? I know they are different watches entirely, but for relatively the same money (+-3K) you can step into the Journe.  
I already own a GO PanoGraph therfor I feel it not wise to add a Lange 1 to my collection at this time. I would like to add an important dress watch from Lange and I would use the Journe Octa in RG as a dress watch as it does have a slim profle.  
Since owning my Glashutte, I have become extremely overcome by the German craftsmen - Help me decide on wither the Lange or Journe - Also, any other recomendations are appreciated for a Lange dress watch - 
thank you in advance
Personally, I would stay with Lange....but they are really two kettles of fish. If you like the design and look of the Journe more than the understated elegance of the 1815, go for it. 
But also, go to your retailers - take a loupe, and examine both watches. Study not only the movement, which you must (more about this later), but also examine the hands, the dial, the crown, the lugs, the case, the buckle. On the movement, scrutinize the balance wheel, the anglage at the edges of the plates, the anglages at the openings for screws, or for access into the movement. Observe the wheels, the finish applied, the shape of the tooth. Then put aside the loupe, and take the entire view of the movement...savor the moment, and catch your breath. Put both watches on your wrist, and enjoy the feel. Wind both. Then, go home. Don't buy yet. Stay away from the store for 3 days...then go back, and buy the watch which keeps popping up in your mind during those 3 days. I have trouble with the whole comparison here. List on the 1815 is around $9-10K; on the Octa around $22K. Thus I cannot imagine any scenario under which you could arrive at a price differential of $3K. These are such entirely different watches. The 1815 is a simple, wonderfully refined manual wind and the Octa an automatic with power reserve and date. There is an artisinal flair to the Journe which results in some positive and negative comparisons. The finishing really is not very good at all. Nor is the reliability. The Journe does however have a charm to it which arises from its hand made roots. The Lange blows it away on finishing and refinement. Performance as well. Then when you factor in price, the conclusion is easy.
On the other hand if you meant to compare the Langematic large date--which is in the price range of the Journe, although several thousand cheaper, at least we start to compare similar watches--as both are automatic wind, large date. Again the Lange finishing and refinement exist in a totally different league from the Journe. The only areas where the Journe offers some advantages over the Lange are 1. greater power reserve, 2. free sprung balance, 3. power reserve indicator. Weighing one against the other certainly calls for personal value judgments. However, on my scale, the Lange simply blows away the Octa in its sophistication, refinement and execution. Jeff ASG, hope you and your wife had a wonderful trip. Sorry I have not returned your email as of yet, just been very hectic, but I shall do so shortly so that we may catch up.
Regarding the Lange 1815 and the F P Journe, as Peter mentioned not only are they two different kettles of fish, but from two different oceans as well.
As you know I am a huge fan of both, owning the PG Lange 1, as well as the PG F P Journe. While the 1815 and the Octa are both entry level watches for their respective brands, they are light years apart in both design, complication, size and appearance.
While the basic 1815 is an excellent, and proven watch, it is in my opinion,(and please don't anybody take this this the wrong way, as I can hear my ears burning as I type) it is rather pedestrian when compared to the F P Journe. The basic 1815 offers only hours, minutes, and small seconds, in a very staple and conservative design. In addition at 35.9 mm it may(WILL)prove to small for you. The next step would be the 1815 up down(same 35.9 mm)which adds the power reserve. Movements are pure Lange, and no issue there.
The F P Journe on the other hand is 38 mm, offers large panorama date, power reserve(120 hours to boot), and perhaps one of the most striking and unusual dial designs available (purely subjective). The case and lugs of the Octa are more elegant and visually striking. It is a watch that you will not see coming around every corner at you(not that you will experience this with the 1815, but its looks may be similar to others). Neither you nor anyone else will ever mistake it for anything other than what it is.
 
Before going on, the retail for the basic 1815 is $8,900, and the up down is $12,700. The retail for the Octa is $19,600. Without discussing discounts if you do the math the Octa will cost approximately between $5500 - $8,500 more than the 1815 depending on the model you choose. In my very humble opinion well worth the difference for the privilege of wearing an F P Journe.
In conclusion, as wonderful a watch as the 1815 is, the F P Journe Octa Reserve De Marche, in my opinion is SO elegant, SO unique, and captivating, the movement so wonderful that the two watches exist in two parallel universes.
As I have enormous respect for Lange, I mean no disrespect to the 1815 nor those fortunate enough to own one.
All my best, and will speak futher.
Regards,
SMS
: Personally, I would stay with Lange....but they are really two kettles of fish. If you like the 
: design and look of the Journe more than the understated elegance of the 1815, go for it. 
:  
:  
:  
: But also, go to your retailers - take a loupe, and examine both watches. Study not only the 
: movement, which you must (more about this later), but also examine the hands, the dial, the crown, the 
: lugs, the case, the buckle. On the movement, scrutinize the balance wheel, the anglage at the edges of 
: the plates, the anglages at the openings for screws, or for access into the movement. Observe the 
: wheels, the finish applied, the shape of the tooth. Then put aside the loupe, and take the entire view of 
: the movement...savor the moment, and catch your breath. Put both watches on your wrist, and enjoy 
: the feel. Wind both. Then, go home. Don't buy yet. Stay away from the store for 3 days...then go back, 
: and buy the watch which keeps popping up in your mind during those 3 days. 
Having just posted , I have read Jeff's post and would like to comment on it. 
Jeff, your comments on the 1815 and the Octa are written as statements of fact rather than opinion. If opinion there would be no rebuttle, however as fact I must attempt to set the record straight.
You state that the finishing on the Octa is "not very good at all", meaning no disrespect I must beg to differ. Not very good compared to what? A Philippe DuFour Simplicity, if that is the standard by which we measure, than both the Lange(including the Datograph), and the F P Journe fall short. However having examined both the Lange 1 and the Journe, using a stereo illuminated scientific microscope under both 30X, and 60x power, the Lange holds a slight edge, but not significant.
Secondly the statement of reliability is presently inaccurate. while earlier version may have had some reliability issues, aside from anecdotal occurances, this is no longer a concern.
Stating that Lange "blows it away on finishing and refinement", I believe to be a gross exageration. While I concur that Lange is perhaps at the top of its field in regards to finishing and refinement of movement, it hardly blows away the Journe, as the degrees of finishing are both at extremely high levels.
The same statement claiming superior performance of the Lange compared to the Journe is again completely without merit. As I can speak only to my own experiences the Journe is slightly more accurate than my Lange 1, yet both perform quite well.
Of one thing however I am certain, and that is F P Journe is without question the more innovative, and cutting edge of the two. Journe's Resonance, as well as its Tourbillon Souverain with constant force remontior, are unparrelled by any movement presently offered by Lange.
As an owner and fan of both brands, I have tried to present an unbiased reply to your statements of fact which I felt were at best left to opinion. 
Respectfully,
SMS
: ASG, hope you and your wife had a wonderful trip. Sorry I have not returned your email as of yet, 
: just been very hectic, but I shall do so shortly so that we may catch up. 
:  
:  
:  
: Regarding the Lange 1815 and the F P Journe, as Peter mentioned not only are they two different 
: kettles of fish, but from two different oceans as well. 
:  
:  
:  
: As you know I am a huge fan of both, owning the PG Lange 1, as well as the PG F P Journe. While the 1815 
: and the Octa are both entry level watches for their respective brands, they are light years apart in 
: both design, complication, size and appearance. 
:  
:  
:  
: While the basic 1815 is an excellent, and proven watch, it is in my opinion,(and please don't 
: anybody take this this the wrong way, as I can hear my ears burning as I type) it is rather pedestrian when 
: compared to the F P Journe. The basic 1815 offers only hours, minutes, and small seconds, in a very staple 
: and conservative design. In addition at 35.9 mm it may(WILL)prove to small for you. The next step 
: would be the 1815 up down(same 35.9 mm)which adds the power reserve. Movements are pure Lange, and no 
: issue there. 
:  
:  
:  
: The F P Journe on the other hand is 38 mm, offers large panorama date, power reserve(120 hours to 
: boot), and perhaps one of the most striking and unusual dial designs available (purely subjective). 
: The case and lugs of the Octa are more elegant and visually striking. It is a watch that you will not 
: see coming around every corner at you(not that you will experience this with the 1815, but its looks 
: may be similar to others). Neither you nor anyone else will ever mistake it for anything other than 
: what it is. 
:  
:  
:  
: Before going on, the retail for the basic 1815 is $8,900, and the up down is $12,700. The retail 
: for the Octa is $19,600. Without discussing discounts if you do the math the Octa will cost 
: approximately between $5500 - $8,500 more than the 1815 depending on the model you choose. In my very humble 
: opinion well worth the difference for the privilege of wearing an F P Journe. 
:  
:  
:  
: In conclusion, as wonderful a watch as the 1815 is, the F P Journe Octa Reserve De Marche, in my 
: opinion is SO elegant, SO unique, and captivating, the movement so wonderful that the two watches exist 
: in two parallel universes. 
:  
:  
:  
: As I have enormous respect for Lange, I mean no disrespect to the 1815 nor those fortunate enough 
: to own one. 
:  
:  
:  
: All my best, and will speak futher. 
:  
:  
:  
: Regards, 
:  
:  
:  
: SMS 
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: : Personally, I would stay with Lange....but they are really two kettles of fish. If you like the 
:  
: : design and look of the Journe more than the understated elegance of the 1815, go for it. 
:  
: :  
:  
: :  
:  
: :  
:  
: : But also, go to your retailers - take a loupe, and examine both watches. Study not only the 
:  
: : movement, which you must (more about this later), but also examine the hands, the dial, the 
: crown, the 
:  
: : lugs, the case, the buckle. On the movement, scrutinize the balance wheel, the anglage at the 
: edges of 
:  
: : the plates, the anglages at the openings for screws, or for access into the movement. Observe 
: the 
:  
: : wheels, the finish applied, the shape of the tooth. Then put aside the loupe, and take the 
: entire view of 
:  
: : the movement...savor the moment, and catch your breath. Put both watches on your wrist, and 
: enjoy 
:  
: : the feel. Wind both. Then, go home. Don't buy yet. Stay away from the store for 3 days...then go 
: back, 
:  
: : and buy the watch which keeps popping up in your mind during those 3 days. 
:  
:  
:  
:  
:  
:  
Hi Jeff,
Your comparison regarding the Journe & Lange is definitely hit the target spot. As an owner of both brand, I can't say it better myself. Well done. And to others, please don't get me wrong, no matter what, I still love my Journe watch as well.
: I have trouble with the whole comparison here. List on the 1815 is around $9-10K; on the Octa 
: around $22K. Thus I cannot imagine any scenario under which you could arrive at a price differential of 
: $3K. These are such entirely different watches. The 1815 is a simple, wonderfully refined manual 
: wind and the Octa an automatic with power reserve and date. There is an artisinal flair to the Journe 
: which results in some positive and negative comparisons. The finishing really is not very good at 
: all. Nor is the reliability. The Journe does however have a charm to it which arises from its hand made 
: roots. The Lange blows it away on finishing and refinement. Performance as well. Then when you factor 
: in price, the conclusion is easy. 
:  
:  
:  
: On the other hand if you meant to compare the Langematic large date--which is in the price range 
: of the Journe, although several thousand cheaper, at least we start to compare similar 
: watches--as both are automatic wind, large date. Again the Lange finishing and refinement exist in a 
: totally different league from the Journe. The only areas where the Journe offers some advantages over 
: the Lange are 1. greater power reserve, 2. free sprung balance, 3. power reserve indicator.  
: Weighing one against the other certainly calls for personal value judgments. However, on my scale, the 
: Lange simply blows away the Octa in its sophistication, refinement and execution. Jeff 
For dress watch go 1815. Better yet add in some cash to get langematik.
: After reading the latest issue of a watch magazine, I have falen in love with the 1815. What are 
: some of the feelings out there as a "first Lange". Also would you buy and 1815 or an FP Journe Octa? I 
: know they are different watches entirely, but for relatively the same money (+-3K) you can step into 
: the Journe.  
:  
:  
:  
: I already own a GO PanoGraph therfor I feel it not wise to add a Lange 1 to my collection at this 
: time. I would like to add an important dress watch from Lange and I would use the Journe Octa in RG as a 
: dress watch as it does have a slim profle.  
:  
:  
:  
: Since owning my Glashutte, I have become extremely overcome by the German craftsmen - Help me 
: decide on wither the Lange or Journe - Also, any other recomendations are appreciated for a Lange dress 
: watch - 
:  
:  
:  
: thank you in advance 
:  
:  
:  
:  
The equivalent to the Journe is evidently not the 1815, but the Lange 1. They have the same features: Hour + minute, seconds, power reserve, large date. The Journe is automatic, the Lange has a double main spring. Their prices don't differ significantly.
Both watches sport a unique design, the Journe is most radical. Functionally spoken the Journe has a strange balance, since the power reserve indicator is designed to show the most important information on the watch - and I think it's the least important! The simple telling of time is done in the most legable way by the L1.
But follow Peter Chong's excellent advice on the choosing - just choose between a L1 and a Journe instead of the 1815.
Best of luck,
Sven
At 53 years old I find the Journe dial much easier to read than the Lange dial as far as what time it is. FOr the date, obviously the Lange is better. I wholeheartedly agree that the mainspring indicator is a near-waste on a manual wind (just wind it each morning for goodness sakes) and almost comedic on an auto. All I can conclude is that it's an easy indicator to engineer.
But I also agree that a Journe Octa is more a match for an L1 than an 1815. I own both (L1 and Octa) and they are different personalities. The Octa, almost whimsical in its presentation, the L1 as Teutonic as Mercedes. Don't know which I like better, but I wear the Octa more for legibility of the main function, telling time!
: The equivalent to the Journe is evidently not the 1815, but the Lange 1. They have the same 
: features: Hour + minute, seconds, power reserve, large date. The Journe is automatic, the Lange has a 
: double main spring. Their prices don't differ significantly. 
:  
:  
:  
: Both watches sport a unique design, the Journe is most radical. Functionally spoken the Journe 
: has a strange balance, since the power reserve indicator is designed to show the most important 
: information on the watch - and I think it's the least important! The simple telling of time is done in the most 
: legable way by the L1. 
:  
:  
:  
: But follow Peter Chong's excellent advice on the choosing - just choose between a L1 and a Journe 
: instead of the 1815. 
:  
:  
:  
: Best of luck, 
:  
: Sven 
:  
:  
:  
:  
Well said. I think both are exqusite! I too, find my Octa (Reserve de Marche Plat LTD 40mm) to be very accurate and a match for my L1 (WG/SD Blue hand). I have also observed the movements under high power stereo (only 25X) and I am afraid the I am not sufficently sophisticated to make Jeff's statements.
: Having just posted , I have read Jeff's post and would like to comment on it. 
:  
:  
:  
: Jeff, your comments on the 1815 and the Octa are written as statements of fact rather than 
: opinion. If opinion there would be no rebuttle, however as fact I must attempt to set the record straight. 
:  
:  
:  
: You state that the finishing on the Octa is "not very good at all", meaning no disrespect I must 
: beg to differ. Not very good compared to what? A Philippe DuFour Simplicity, if that is the standard 
: by which we measure, than both the Lange(including the Datograph), and the F P Journe fall short. 
: However having examined both the Lange 1 and the Journe, using a stereo illuminated scientific 
: microscope under both 30X, and 60x power, the Lange holds a slight edge, but not significant. 
:  
:  
:  
: Secondly the statement of reliability is presently inaccurate. while earlier version may 
: have had some reliability issues, aside from anecdotal occurances, this is no longer a concern. 
:  
:  
:  
: Stating that Lange "blows it away on finishing and refinement", I believe to be a gross 
: exageration. While I concur that Lange is perhaps at the top of its field in regards to finishing and 
: refinement of movement, it hardly blows away the Journe, as the degrees of finishing are both at extremely 
: high levels. 
:  
:  
:  
: The same statement claiming superior performance of the Lange compared to the Journe is again 
: completely without merit. As I can speak only to my own experiences the Journe is slightly more accurate 
: than my Lange 1, yet both perform quite well. 
:  
:  
:  
: Of one thing however I am certain, and that is F P Journe is without question the more innovative, 
: and cutting edge of the two. Journe's Resonance, as well as its Tourbillon Souverain with constant 
: force remontior, are unparrelled by any movement presently offered by Lange. 
:  
:  
:  
:  
:  
: As an owner and fan of both brands, I have tried to present an unbiased reply to your statements of 
: fact which I felt were at best left to opinion. 
:  
:  
:  
:  
:  
: Respectfully, 
:  
:  
:  
: SMS 
:  
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: : ASG, hope you and your wife had a wonderful trip. Sorry I have not returned your email as of yet, 
:  
: : just been very hectic, but I shall do so shortly so that we may catch up. 
:  
: :  
:  
: :  
:  
: :  
:  
: : Regarding the Lange 1815 and the F P Journe, as Peter mentioned not only are they two different 
:  
: : kettles of fish, but from two different oceans as well. 
:  
: :  
:  
: :  
:  
: :  
:  
: : As you know I am a huge fan of both, owning the PG Lange 1, as well as the PG F P Journe. While the 1815 
:  
: : and the Octa are both entry level watches for their respective brands, they are light years 
: apart in 
:  
: : both design, complication, size and appearance. 
:  
: :  
:  
: :  
:  
: :  
:  
: : While the basic 1815 is an excellent, and proven watch, it is in my opinion,(and please don't 
:  
: : anybody take this this the wrong way, as I can hear my ears burning as I type) it is rather 
: pedestrian when 
:  
: : compared to the F P Journe. The basic 1815 offers only hours, minutes, and small seconds, in a 
: very staple 
:  
: : and conservative design. In addition at 35.9 mm it may(WILL)prove to small for you. The next 
: step 
:  
: : would be the 1815 up down(same 35.9 mm)which adds the power reserve. Movements are pure Lange, 
: and no 
:  
: : issue there. 
:  
: :  
:  
: :  
:  
: :  
:  
: : The F P Journe on the other hand is 38 mm, offers large panorama date, power reserve(120 hours to 
:  
: : boot), and perhaps one of the most striking and unusual dial designs available (purely 
: subjective). 
:  
: : The case and lugs of the Octa are more elegant and visually striking. It is a watch that you will 
: not 
:  
: : see coming around every corner at you(not that you will experience this with the 1815, but its 
: looks 
:  
: : may be similar to others). Neither you nor anyone else will ever mistake it for anything other 
: than 
:  
: : what it is. 
:  
: :  
:  
: :  
:  
: :  
:  
: : Before going on, the retail for the basic 1815 is $8,900, and the up down is $12,700. The retail 
:  
: : for the Octa is $19,600. Without discussing discounts if you do the math the Octa will cost 
:  
: : approximately between $5500 - $8,500 more than the 1815 depending on the model you choose. In 
: my very humble 
:  
: : opinion well worth the difference for the privilege of wearing an F P Journe. 
:  
: :  
:  
: :  
:  
: :  
:  
: : In conclusion, as wonderful a watch as the 1815 is, the F P Journe Octa Reserve De Marche, in my 
:  
: : opinion is SO elegant, SO unique, and captivating, the movement so wonderful that the two 
: watches exist 
:  
: : in two parallel universes. 
:  
: :  
:  
: :  
:  
: :  
:  
: : As I have enormous respect for Lange, I mean no disrespect to the 1815 nor those fortunate 
: enough 
:  
: : to own one. 
:  
: :  
:  
: :  
:  
: :  
:  
: : All my best, and will speak futher. 
:  
: :  
:  
: :  
:  
: :  
:  
: : Regards, 
:  
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: : SMS 
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: : : Personally, I would stay with Lange....but they are really two kettles of fish. If you like 
: the 
:  
: :  
:  
: : : design and look of the Journe more than the understated elegance of the 1815, go for it. 
:  
: :  
:  
: : :  
:  
: :  
:  
: : :  
:  
: :  
:  
: : :  
:  
: :  
:  
: : : But also, go to your retailers - take a loupe, and examine both watches. Study not only the 
:  
: :  
:  
: : : movement, which you must (more about this later), but also examine the hands, the dial, the 
:  
: : crown, the 
:  
: :  
:  
: : : lugs, the case, the buckle. On the movement, scrutinize the balance wheel, the anglage at the 
:  
: : edges of 
:  
: :  
:  
: : : the plates, the anglages at the openings for screws, or for access into the movement. Observe 
:  
: : the 
:  
: :  
:  
: : : wheels, the finish applied, the shape of the tooth. Then put aside the loupe, and take the 
:  
: : entire view of 
:  
: :  
:  
: : : the movement...savor the moment, and catch your breath. Put both watches on your wrist, and 
:  
: : enjoy 
:  
: :  
:  
: : : the feel. Wind both. Then, go home. Don't buy yet. Stay away from the store for 3 days...then go 
:  
: : back, 
:  
: :  
:  
: : : and buy the watch which keeps popping up in your mind during those 3 days. 
:  
: :  
:  
: :  
:  
: :  
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Thanks SMS for the wishes! 
Everyone, thank you for your time and opinions - All are appreciated and have provided me with too much distraction to the start of my work day!  
One thing I'd liek to clear up is i came to my price difference of $3K becasue i know what I can get the FP Journe for and i haven't been able to find someone who discounts on the Lange and haven't made the important calls yet becasue I am just researching at this point.  
I completely agree with all of you that the Octa and 1815 are not best suited for a side by side comparison. But as we all know, we each have our own wierd behaviors when analyzing and selecting the next piece or two to add to our already inflated collections. I think its a disease but anyway....
Since I already have a Glashutte PanoReserve i rulled out the Lange 1 at this time. If I had it my way i'd love to pick up a Lange Perpetual but I just haven't hit that stage of my life yet.  
My reasoning for comparing the 1815, and most likely the "up and down", with the Octa is becasue they are both watches which are, in my opinion, important and significant watches offered today and would each compliment my collection perfectly.  
Some of you make an interesting point. Why not a Langematik witht he big date, larger case and automatic movement? This offers a better comparison between the two, but there is something that the 1815 did to me that made me fall in love. Is it too small for my wrist, yes, but If one wants a dress watch to fit under the expensive tux shirt your wife made you buy, then you must find a complementary watch - (maybe im nuts!)
Part of my resoning is that I do not know "market" prices for Lange's - Many of the dealers I visit do not carry them and most will only quote 20% off at best.  
Well, I do appreciate all the isnight, maybe the langematik is the way to go - Any thoughts on that watch?  
I must say though that the FP Journe's case is one of pur beauty. That is a watch which just feel like butta! the polishing, edges and the way it lays (at least on my wrist) is second to none in my collection. I know it is very similar to my GO Pano with the big date, off center H&M, power reserve but the watch is that much more elegant than my GO and thus perfect for use as a dress watch as well. The Lange 1, in my opinion is more comparable with my GO in the fact its a little thicker and makes a much bolder statement. I love my GO pano - but I believe its purchase may have afforded me my current suffering of not owning a Lange. Oh well...
Thanks again!
ASG Thats a lot to claim, especially since you throw in price for good measure. While most would agree that the finish of the top plate of a Lange 1 is beyond compare, the rest of your conclusions are far less self evident, at least to me. Rather than conclusions, I would prefer to read about the supporting facts underlying your stark conclusions. Thanks. Herman, I didn't know you owned both, you lucky man. Now a tough question: In case you had to sell one of them, which one?
Sven Between this 2, I would go for Journe simply because I already have a langematik.