WATCH POP

as a long time watch enthusiast, but not someone who knows much about Omega, i've always been interested in the Speedmaster. I don't think the standard Speedmaster (from a number of years ago with the "original" bracelet, not the current one...i like the older bracelet's styling more) would see much wrist time for me.

i'm asking for advice on which "special" Speedmaster or Omega "big watch" (around 40mm or greater) would be very interesting as a good addition to someone's "big watch collection"?

i'm only recently taken to big watches, as my wrist is relatively small for a guy (around 160mm to 165mm or around 6 1/2"). my limited big watches incl a green sub, to an Amvox, to Panerai. unexpectedly, i don't like the Panerai's that much, though from time to time, they are fun to wear. surprisingly, i'm more taken by the green sub and the Amvox.

i thought that a special Omega Speedmaster would be fun. somehow, my memory tells me that there once was a special edition that is a stainless Speedmaster with a skeleton movement, but unfortunately, i'm not sure it exists. there's also the issue of how much one would want to pay for a Speedmaster, no matter what type of unique edition it is. there is some sort of a ceiling, i'm sure, as there is for every single watch out there beyond which is it not "worth it" for most watch enthusiasts.

the few key parameters are: around 40mm to 45mm, somewhat big watch/bulky/sporty looking, white metal (stainless preferred, white gold next, and platinum the last choice). i'd prefer a watch that is obtainable in excellent condition, virtually new, and not refinished. the ideal would be new or like new or worn few times with little wear or damage.

many thanks in advance.

and check out his Speedmaster split seconds (1st watch on the left in his second photo). It fits your requirements, big, classy and just a cool Speedy. One maybe a bit difficult to find nowdays, as they were discontinued a few years ago.

The skeleton Speedys were a very limited edition in white gold, are very, very expensive, and are much more difficult to find than even the split seconds.

You might also look at a 176.0012, a Speedy Mark IV. It's a good size, has a Lemania 5100 movement, and, although discontinued, are readily available on Ebay and occasionally on the SC. The Mark IV's standard bracelet is an older style and is very comfortable. Here's a picture of mine, before I had a new dial, hands, crystal and bracelet installed.



This is the bracelet:

"... keeping track of mere seconds gained or lost is a path towards madness ..." - tom friend Mr. BreitlingFan,

many thanks for your thoughtful posting/reply.

here are my initial, uneducated (vis-a-vis Omegas) thoughts:

- re: the Speedmaster split seconds, the 1st watch on the left in his second photo), it is not sufficiently classic, and not thoroughly modern, so it is not likely for me, unless i learn more about it and somehow fall in love with it. the buttons don't do much for me, though in the IWC Ingeneur Chrono, i don't mind that type of buttons. typically, i prefer classic/clean, or very exciting, very modern, current looks.

- i don't know which one the 176.0012 (Speedy Mark IV) is? is it the one that you posted two pics of? i like THAT one a lot! it is classic, and yet, it has very retro "lugs" or "hoods", right? i also like the very simple, "older" style. how much are these? is this the Mark IV? where might one find one?

- having said that, though i like the two pics (whatever the model name/number is for that watch, which may well be the Mark IV 176.0012), it is very nice to have, but not truly amazingly "must have", like the skeleton! may i ask how much the skeletons are now? are those skeletons "worth" whatever price they are commanding now? of course, i understand that worth is very relative and subjective, but it is hard to imagine that someone would pay $15,000 for a Speedmaster, right? or am i totally off base?

i am just thinking that a skeleton "white metal" classic Speedmaster would be truly fun to have in any "big watch" collection, though many don't consider these watches sufficiently big nowadays! if not over 42mm or 45mm, some don't consider them big!

looking forward to hearing from you.

thanks yet again!

Mk IV uses cal 1040, whereas your 176.0012 uses cal 1045 (L5100). 2 different watches, although the cases may be similar... The way to man's heart is through the aorta Chuck Maddox, a gentleman and guru of chronographs, and Omega Chronographs, has a great website that you should go and read and learn from. hope that'll give you some ideas

http://home.xnet.com/~cmaddox/cm3articles.html

good luck! :)

PS Once you start learning about the Speedmaster lines, you'll me amazed re: history and variation of models The way to man's heart is through the aorta damm.. Mr BF... you've just shown me my next omega!!! wow... that mark IV looks REALLY good!! I s'pose it's quite thick? (something which i don't mind at all...)

sam -Nothing in life worth having comes easy- "Can you feel it? SamKan!" Check out the below article on Chuck's site. It's got everything you always wanted to know about the 1045 Speedys. According to the table, the Mark IV 176.0012 is 15mm thick.

Here's what it looks like from the crown side.

home.xnet.com/~cmaddox/c1045.html "... keeping track of mere seconds gained or lost is a path towards madness ..." - tom friend i don't know which one the 176.0012 (Speedy Mark IV) is? is it the one that you posted two pics of? i like THAT one a lot! it is classic, and yet, it has very retro "lugs" or "hoods", right? i also like the very simple, "older" style. how much are these? is this the Mark IV? where might one find one?

The two pictures I posted are of my 176.0012, which I have always referred to as a Mark IV Professional. They were taken by the seller I bought it from on Ebay. I agree that it's a classic '70s looking case design, which is similar to the modern Sinn case design that they use for their 5100 powered watches (I don't remember the model numbers off hand). I paid around $1,100 for mine, but it was in excellent shape. You can expect to pay anywhere fron about $800 to $1,200 depending on condition.

having said that, though i like the two pics (whatever the model name/number is for that watch, which may well be the Mark IV 176.0012), it is very nice to have, but not truly amazingly "must have", like the skeleton! may i ask how much the skeletons are now? are those skeletons "worth" whatever price they are commanding now? of course, i understand that worth is very relative and subjective, but it is hard to imagine that someone would pay $15,000 for a Speedmaster, right? or am i totally off base?

I would not even begin to guess what a Speedmaster skeleton would cost today, if you could find one. In the end, any watch, regardless of make or rarity is only worth what someone is willing to write you a check for! "... keeping track of mere seconds gained or lost is a path towards madness ..." - tom friend You are correct about the movements being different, and the dial layouts are different also. I have always referred to the 5100 version as the Mark IV Professional. I seem to remember that I picked up on the "professional" designation from one of the articles on Chuck's site. I'll have to go back and do some research as to where I actually saw it. "... keeping track of mere seconds gained or lost is a path towards madness ..." - tom friend I think Chuck said in the "Mark" series speedies only MKII, MK IV and some MK III have "Professional" on their dials.

from what I understand, the Cal 1045 176.0012 isn't part of the "Mark" series speedies...

I quote from Chuck's site:
At a glance it is easy to see how a Mark IV(a) could be confused with a c.1045 Speedmaster... Another quick and easy way to tell the difference is the Mark IV only has a Date, whereas the c.1045 has a Day-Date.
The way to man's heart is through the aorta I just found the article that you qouted from, and obviously I did not remember correctly. Seems I had the references reversed. Thanks for the help, J. "... keeping track of mere seconds gained or lost is a path towards madness ..." - tom friend Correct. Chuck certainly wouldn't say that. :-0

The 176.0012 is not a professional model being fitted with the cal 1045

Here's mine.



The MKIV professional is a different watch with a calibre 1040.Mine shown here.



I think the differences are apparent. Cheers, Neil. BreitlingFan Posts: Mk IV and 176.0012 are 2 different Omega speedies [Sep 21, 2005 - 11:52 PM] [snip] You might also look at a 176.0012, a Speedy Mark IV. It's a good size, has a Lemania 5100 movement, and, although discontinued, are readily available on Ebay and occasionally on the SC. The Mark IV's standard bracelet is an older style and is very comfortable. Here's a picture of mine, before I had a new dial, hands, crystal and bracelet installed. Initial J Posts: Mk IV and 176.0012 are 2 different Omega speedies [Sep 22, 2005 - 04:06 AM] Mk IV uses cal 1040, whereas your 176.0012 uses cal 1045 (L5100). 2 different watches, although the cases may be similar... BreitlingFan Posts: Re: Mk IV and 176.0012 are 2 different Omega speedies [Sep 22, 2005 - 07:45 AM You are correct about the movements being different, and the dial layouts are different also. I have always referred to the 5100 version as the Mark IV Professional. I seem to remember that I picked up on the "professional" designation from one of the articles on Chuck's site. I'll have to go back and do some research as to where I actually saw it. Initial J Posts: No... i don't think Chuck ever said that.... [Sep 22, 2005 - 08:08 AM] I think Chuck said in the "Mark" series speedies only MKII, MK IV and some MK III have "Professional" on their dials. from what I understand, the Cal 1045 176.0012 isn't part of the "Mark" series speedies... I quote from Chuck's site:

Neil (UK) Posts: Re: No... i don't think Chuck ever said that.... [Sep 22, 2005 - 09:36 AM]Correct. Chuck certainly wouldn't say that. :-0 The 176.0012 is not a professional model being fitted with the cal 1045 Here's mine. The MKIV professional is a different watch with a calibre 1040.Mine shown here. I think the differences are apparent. Separated at Birth? - The similarity of the Mark IV and the ST176.0012

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The Skeleton Seamaster in White Gold is $28,000. God only knows what a Skelly Speedy would cost.

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sorry White gold was $38,000 and yellow gold was $48,000.

YIKES!

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I am really having reality issues this morning...

$48,000 White or Yellow on Bracelet. $38,000 for either with a rubber strap.

here is a link to Chronocentrics description: www.chronocentric.com/galleries/omega_seamaster.shtml#sm_skeleton

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Hell, I can't tell the difference between a Mark IV and a 1045. Days like today, the voice in the back of my head keeps saying, "... and I never should've opened my mouth!" "... keeping track of mere seconds gained or lost is a path towards madness ..." - tom friend

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Here's a scan from a German Omega Brochure...


which clearly shows the 176.0012 as a MK IV..... :-(


But I agree with the majority here. Calling the 176.0012 a MK IV just confuses everthing ( even though Omega started it all ! )


SO ... does anyone have a suggestion for a short, sharp, easy nickname for the watch ?

176.0012 - sounds like the size of my bank overdraft
1045 movemented MK II type case speedmaster - Na :-(
sort of MK IV, but not quite really the real thing - Na :-(

C'mon guys.
www.Old-Omegas.com - a great place to find Omega brochures, owners manuals & more !
Confusion say :- Man with 1 watch KNOW time. Man with 2 watches never sure !

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eieioeieio Posts: Speedmaster or similar: which special model would be "most interesting" ? [Sep 21, 2005 - 11:22 PM]as a long time watch enthusiast, but not someone who knows much about Omega, i've always been interested in the Speedmaster. I don't think the standard Speedmaster (from a number of years ago with the "original" bracelet, not the current one...i like the older bracelet's styling more) would see much wrist time for me. i'm asking for advice on which "special" Speedmaster or Omega "big watch" (around 40mm or greater) would be very interesting as a good addition to someone's "big watch collection"? i'm only recently taken to big watches, as my wrist is relatively small for a guy (around 160mm to 165mm or around 6 1/2"). my limited big watches incl a green sub, to an Amvox, to Panerai. unexpectedly, i don't like the Panerai's that much, though from time to time, they are fun to wear. surprisingly, i'm more taken by the green sub and the Amvox. i thought that a special Omega Speedmaster would be fun. somehow, my memory tells me that there once was a special edition that is a stainless Speedmaster with a skeleton movement, but unfortunately, i'm not sure it exists. there's also the issue of how much one would want to pay for a Speedmaster, no matter what type of unique edition it is. there is some sort of a ceiling, i'm sure, as there is for every single watch out there beyond which is it not "worth it" for most watch enthusiasts. the few key parameters are: around 40mm to 45mm, somewhat big watch/bulky/sporty looking, white metal stainless preferred, white gold next, and platinum the last choice). i'd prefer a watch that is obtainable in excellent condition, virtually new, and not refinished. the ideal would be new or like new or worn few times with little wear or damage. This is where the problem comes in, and why I haven't replied earlier...I could list off a couple of ideas that others haven't mentioned that would fit your criteria with the exception of the “virtually new”, “new or like new or worn few times with little wear or damage”...That becomes a problem very quickly.However, as the photo's provided by others attest, finding excellent or better condition vintage Omega's is possible if one searches far and wide and diligently...In addition to the recently offered (and only slightly more recently discontinued) Split-Second's model there are several Vintage Chronographs that would fit your ,,Big, bold and brawny,, mandate... First on the list, if sheer weight is your aim, then the Speedmaster 125 Chronograph-Chronometre is probably #1 on your list... Omega only made 2,000 of these, but these watches are so heavy that they are frequently available on the secondary market, usually in pretty good shape. If you are seeking one, I recently had email communications with a fellow in the far east who know's of a shop that has several on hand.Next are a couple of c.1040 half brothers to the 125... The Mark III Chronograph, which is one of the thickest chronographs Omega has ever offered at 17mm thick. I liken the shape of the Mark III's case to a Volcano... I have nicknamed my Mark III “Dr. Evil” as it reminds me of the sort of watch Blofeld character of the "sweet spot" of the James Bond movies from "Thunderball" through "On Her Majesty's Secret Service" might wear...The second c.1040 is the Seamaster 120m/440ft... This watch is basically a Mark III case with a diver's bezel affixed. It's a very special watch in Speedmaster history as it marks the first Screw-down crown and first Diver's bezel on any Seamaster Chronograph.You won't be wearing either of these two with long sleeves buttoned.Next on the list of watches to consider (that haven't been mentioned by others in this thread) are the two "Bar Bracelet" model's of c.1045 Speedmaster automatic Day-Date chronographs... The 176.0014 "TV Dial" model, and the 176.0015 "Tonneau" model. These models are certainly thinner than their thicker c.1040 cousins (by a millimetre or two) but are as or more hefty because of the design of their case and integrated bracelet.Next on the hit parade are the Flightmaster Chronographs. Call them Speedmaster's for the Jet-Set... With an independently settable second hour hand, these watches were marketed to pilot's and world travellers... And there are many many others worth investigating...Truth be told, all of these watches are getting difficult to find. And they weren't particularly easy to locate several years back when I obtained my examples. But if you look long and hard enough, you probably can find examples worthy of consideration and purchase.Additionally, I would point out the table's I've compiled on various Omega chronograph sizes for future reference. As has been mentioned previously in the thread, it is amazing the sheer depth and breadth of models that Omega has produced through the years. It's the reason why so many of us here collect Omega and keep on coming back for more.many thanks in advance. I hope my ramblings have been of some value to you...

The forum here is the best place in the world to ask questions...Good Hunting!

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I've seen the speedmaster skeleton for sale in London....from memory £ 24,000.

Looked good!!

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"... keeping track of mere seconds gained or lost is a path towards madness ..." - tom friend

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I think "Mark IV _CASED_ c.1045" is a workable verbal description, if you don't want to say "176.0012"...

"176.0012 Mark IV CASED. c.1045" would be better as it covers all bases.

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Hi Chuck,

I like many of the ones you posted here, especially the Flightmaster Chronographs!

i need to do more educational reading!

may i ask approximately how much the Flightmaster Chronos might cost? where would one best have a chance to find one in good/very good condition?

many thanks!

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eieioeieio Posts: Chuck: love those! [Sep 22, 2005 - 04:39 PM]Hi Chuck, I like many of the ones you posted here, especially the Flightmaster Chronographs! i need to do more educational reading! may i ask approximately how much the Flightmaster Chronos might cost? You can do a completed eBay auction search yourself as easily as I can... Ignore any listing in RMB. Those auctions are posted by crooks who loot other eBay listings to commit fraud.where would one best have a chance to find one in good/very good condition? I'd start my "Chronograph Crawl" with my Links page via the link in the footer of this and many other of my messages here on TZOF.many thanks!Good Hunting!

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Hi BF

sorry i wasn't trying to argue with you, but as you can see, that there's a LOT of confusion around this watch, hehehehe. good to have a nice discussion here on the board! now have se scared off our new comer?? :) The way to man's heart is through the aorta

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Please pay a visit to the Omega Speedmaster 376.0822 Owners page... ...and leave a message if you own one of these great chronographs!

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I don't think we scared anyone off, quite the opposite - for me at least. We had a vigorous discussion about a great watch, and I learned something. What's not to like? I've probably read Chuck's Speedmaster pages a dozen times (and printed them out for a notebook I keep), and the "professional" thing got by me. It just proves how valuable this forum is to those of us who have a passion (addiction?) for Speedmasters! "... keeping track of mere seconds gained or lost is a path towards madness ..." - tom friend

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He asked for big, bold and brawny. The Grail isn't in the first tier when it comes to big, bold and brawny... It's a much more refined and cultured watch.

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Please pay a visit to the Omega Speedmaster 376.0822 Owners page... ...and leave a message if you own one of these great chronographs!

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eieio2 Posted: "...key parameters are:around 40mm to 45mm , somewhat big watch/bulky /sporty looking, white metal (stainless preferred, white gold next, and platinum the last choice). i'd prefer a watch that is obtainable in excellent condition, virtually new , and not refinished. the ideal would be new or like new or worn few times with little wear or damage ." Pascal S Posts: Good point. It fits the bill in terms of size though... [nt] [Sep 22, 2005 - 09:11 PM]

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I think I was just letting my subjectivity take over from my brain, given the fact that the "most interesting" Speedmaster, apart from the classic moonwatch, would be the Grail. It might not be bulky, but it has a presence some larger watches cannot come even close to.

Also, I know first-hand how difficult it is to get one, and I also know that I got extremely lucky to find mine at a very decent price. I doubt such a stroke of luck could easily be replicated, and it certainly takes a large amount of dedication to embark on such a quest. "Obtainable" is therefore not a word particularly suited to this watch, I agree. Please pay a visit to the Omega Speedmaster 376.0822 Owners page... ...and leave a message if you own one of these great chronographs!

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Pascal S Posts: All are very good points. [Sep 23, 2005 - 07:06 AM] I think I was just letting my subjectivity take over from my brain, given the fact that the "most interesting" Speedmaster, apart from the classic moonwatch, would be the Grail. It might not be bulky, but it has a presence some larger watches cannot come even close to. Also, I know first-hand how difficult it is to get one, and I also know that I got extremely lucky to find mine at a very decent price. I doubt such a stroke of luck could easily be replicated, and it certainly takes a large amount of dedication to embark on such a quest. "Obtainable" is therefore not a word particularly suited to this watch, I agree.

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may i ask where to fine the Grail that's been mentioned? intrigued.

is it a model?

thx in advance. sorry to be such an omega newbie. ;)

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It is the last Speedy produced with the cal. 1045 (a.k.a. Lemania 5100) movement. Produced in possibly less than 2000 pieces, only in 1987. It combines the classic look of the full size Moonwatch case with what is possibly one of the most interesting automatic movements ever made. The Lemania 5100 was favoured for military applications (Orfina Porsche Design, Arctos, Tengler, Tutima, Sinn) or even space (Sinn again, Fortis) because of its ruggedness and its ability to withstand accelerations.

This watch is amazingly difficult to find nowadays... Please pay a visit to the Omega Speedmaster 376.0822 Owners page... ...and leave a message if you own one of these great chronographs!