WATCH POP

Chuck,
It seems my original apology for misattributing the concept of the public being used as "Beta-testers" for the cal. 33xx to you has been zapped along with the last 7 or so posts in the contentious thread about this topic below. I reckon Damon had enough of the back and forth and lopped off a few responses. Here it is again for posterity:

Chuck, in a recent debate over the problems of the cal. 33xx movement, I erroneously ascribed the notion that Omega had used the general public as their "Beta test" for this movement to you. I could have sworn that you said this but...you did not. In fact, on previous threads like this one, you specifically disabuse people of the notion that you are the one who came up with this terminology. Was it perhaps Mike Weinberg who began applying this analogy, as he does in this thread? Who can say? But it certainly wasn't you and I apologize for contributing to the urban myth that you are the author of this quote. I happen to think it is a very apt analogy--not that it was actual corporate policy, but by shortchanging proper R&D and QC procedures it had the de facto effect of using the public as their "Beta testers" for the cal. 33xx. But that doesn't excuse my attribution of it to you as the source of said analogy.
Sorry and I'll try to fact-check better in the future.
All the best,
Tom

"It's just a muscle. Only it is the main muscle. It works as perfectly as a Rolex Oyster Perpetual. The trouble is you cannot send it to the Rolex representative when it goes wrong. When it stops, you just do not know the time. You're dead." -- Ernest Hemingway, Across the River and into the Trees tomvox1 Posts: My apology to Chuck (as the original was deleted)... [Mar 18, 2006 - 11:31 AM] Chuck, It seems my original apology for misattributing the concept of the public being used as "Beta-testers" for the cal. 33xx to you has been zapped along with the last 7 or so posts in the contentious thread about this topic below. I reckon Damon had enough of the back and forth and lopped off a few responses. Here it is again for posterity: Chuck, in a recent debate over the problems of the cal. 33xx movement, I erroneously ascribed the notion that Omega had used the general public as their "Beta test" for this movement to you. Ok, I'll take your word on that. I must have missed that particular post. As I did a search on the word "beta", and only came up with 1 2 hits on posts you had made. At least in the "active" forum, I didn't check your posts in the Archive forum... I wasn't especially concerned who else posted the phrase "Beta" but I wanted to confirm in my own mind I had not introduced this contention/phrase into the topic and discussions. To my knowledge and my research, I have not introduced the concept of ,,Omega using it's customers as beta-testers with regards to the c.33xx,, as some have erroniously claimed, both past and present. Others individuals appear to have introduced the phrase, not I. I could have sworn that you said this but...you did not. It does seem that I have not. I can't remember having done so, and I haven't been able to turn up any instance where I have. Nor has anyone else. In fact, on previous threads like this one , you specifically disabuse people of the notion that you are the one who came up with this terminology. Was it perhaps Mike Weinberg who began applying this analogy, as he does in this thread ? Who can say? As Jaap's post dates from February of 2004 while Mike's post dates from June 2004 (i.e. later), it would seem that we can eliminate Mike from being the first person to coin the phrase. But for all we know Jaap may not have been the first person to have used that phrase. The forum archives only go back so far. But it certainly wasn't you and I apologize for contributing to the urban myth that you are the author of this quote. Well, it certainly doesn't seem that the words came out of my keyboard. For all I know someone might produce a screen snap tomorrow that changes that. I happen to think it is a very apt analogy--not that it was actual corporate policy, but by shortchanging proper R&D and QC procedures it had the de facto effect of using the public as their "Beta testers" for the cal. 33xx. I don't know that Omega intentionally sought to use their customers that way. I hope the management of Omega is not so callous. However, this situation, with it's apparent "fast-track" to production/product to dealers shelves and customer hands would have the same effect as using the customer in that manner. I mean, how could we tell the difference from our vantage point? But that doesn't excuse my attribution of it to you as the source of said analogy. Sorry and I'll try to fact-check better in the future. As I said, I did seek out uses of the word "Beta" in my research prior to posting a reply to Stark. Your posts/name did not come up. As far as I know you did not actually attribute that comment to me. If you had I would have corrected you mildly, pointed out the link above where I had previously documented this and we would have proceed merrily along. The reason why Stark received the reply he did was because he typed up a quote (only he knows where he sourced it), attributed said quote to me, then proceeded to use this erroronious quote as a vehicle to drive off on a tangent and attack. His acts were not provoked by me. He also admitted his poll had a covert purpose and he stated he started the thread to precipitate/facilitate that purpose. For what it's worth, I do feel that Omega's behaviour and track record on this topic has been at best far from even quasi-stellar, and at worst attrocious. Certainly not befitting a firm with such has (or perhaps had) a great established reputation, history, tradition and customer base as it has enjoyed. All the best, Tom Tom, you say you misquoted me. If you have this note is well received and accepted. However, I am not sure you have misquoted me. In such case your note is not necessary nor is your apology necessary. Fair enough? Now all that remains of my "contribution" to the 33xx thread is this post, which makes me look like I've gone off half-cocked because both my original post and Stark's reply, which prompted the above response, have been wiped from existence. I had not noticed that earlier and, shall we say, it does not exactly thrill me, particularly when the original context has gone missing. Hmmm....
In any case, we are left with an existential situation where I am apologizing for something that only continues to exist in my mind! Perhaps we will have to go with a theological solution--that the intent is the same as the action morally. Ah, well...TZ does not make it easy, does it?
With all respect,
T. "It's just a muscle. Only it is the main muscle. It works as perfectly as a Rolex Oyster Perpetual. The trouble is you cannot send it to the Rolex representative when it goes wrong. When it stops, you just do not know the time. You're dead." -- Ernest Hemingway, Across the River and into the Trees tomvox1 Posts: Seems THAT post was deleted, as well... [Mar 18, 2006 - 04:31 PM] Now all that remains of my "contribution" to the 33xx thread is this post, which makes me look like I've gone off half-cocked because both my original post and Stark's reply, which prompted the above response, have been wiped from existence. I had not noticed that earlier and, shall we say, it does not exactly thrill me, particularly when the original context has gone missing. Hmmm.... In any case, we are left with an existential situation where I am apologizing for something that only continues to exist in my mind! Perhaps we will have to go with a theological solution--that the intent is the same as the action morally. Ah, well...TZ does not make it easy, does it? With all respect, T. Deleting multiple responses to a post is a real pain since I can't just check mark the ones that I want to pull, and then hit a delete button. I have to pull them one by one (which can be time consuming,) and when I pull one, it takes me back to the original post in the thread so I have to remember where I was at in the replies so I know which ones to pull. I was in the middle of a party last night when I pulled them, so I just went quickly hoping I got them all.

Best Regards,

Damon When your watch gets out of order you have a choice of two things to do: throw it in the fire or take it to the watch-tinker. The former is the quickest. -MT Quickly? Well...I guess that makes it all right then.
T. "It's just a muscle. Only it is the main muscle. It works as perfectly as a Rolex Oyster Perpetual. The trouble is you cannot send it to the Rolex representative when it goes wrong. When it stops, you just do not know the time. You're dead." -- Ernest Hemingway, Across the River and into the Trees my response to Chuck. As Roger pointed out- it was out of line, I had no intention of acting, as Roger pointed out - Troll-ish, but I did. I was Wrong.

I have apologized to both Chuck and Roger - Thank you Chuck for Graciously accepting my apology. Thank you Roger for pointing it out.

Tom, Damon deleted, at my request. I blew it - I got wrapped up too tight and and Popped Off for no good reason. To all who had the mis-fortune of reading that rubbish - I apologize. I will not happen again.

Thank You,
Ron I've been doing this sort of thing (Assistant Sysop, Sysop, Admin, Moderator, etc.) off and on (more on than off) for 20 years... 15 years ago I likely would have done exactly what Damon did. It's only with more miles at the keyboard and reflection upon the needs and consequences of said action(s) that I came to the realization(s) that except in the most dire of circumstances that it's often not necessary to rush the decision/act.

I don't think it's that big of a deal, and I'm sure Damon will take our conversation here in consideration the next time a similar situation occurs and do even better.

It could be worse... I remember an event when Ross nuked the entire top page of posts here in the TZOF. I was able to quickly post a message and in the "Top 25 posters" page, I had 100% of the posts made in the forum... I was the first person to have been able to claim that. Can anyone name another person (also a non-moderator) who can claim to have made every post made in TZOF?

I wish I could find the screen snapshot I took of my "Top (100%) poster" page... Good memories...

Anyway, I think we've gone about as far as we can on this street. It's time to try a side thread as it were...
I have to admire your passion for your watches!

Best regards