WATCH POP

Hi guys, Need help finding out if this black dial is original or not. Thanks for help and feedback, Alex




Not very clear pics but I would edge towards saying it is genuine.

However without the watch to hand it is really impossible to make 100% statements.

I must admit I am always wary of black pie-pans as I don't think they made nearly as many as are around now. LOL Cheers, Neil. Looks genuine. However, it does need to be cleaned
though. ... with the following warnings:

1. Make sure that the Cal. 501 movement has the proper chronometer adjusted rotor (19 jewels, adjusted Five (5) Positions, etc.). It is quite common for these to be "frankened" or put together from pieces of various movements. Many Omega movements of the mid-1950's shared parts.

2. Black pie-pan dials are rare from this era. This one looks like an original dial. The "Swiss Made" is in the correct place (close together) at the bottom of the dial. The cross hair passes through the word Constellation just before the first "l". The star is pointed up. All good signs, but not definitive. If it's a re-dial it's a pretty good one.

3. The case reference stamped on the inside of the caseback should be 2852-X, with X being 6 or less.

Even if all of the above check out, it's still possible for this piece to be a frankenwatch. But no matter, it's still a nice piece.

You will want to check out Desmond's Constellation Blog. There are a lot of informative atricles there on the vintage Constellations:

http://omega-constellation-collectors.blogspot.com/

Hope this helps,
gatorcpa This is a pic of movement of same watch, shows Cal 501 20 jewels, but "DOESN'T" show 5 posicions, etc. Is this an original Cal 501?
Gator's warning was spot on....as usual :)

The whole rotor assembly looks to me like its been replaced. 501 winding systems were well known for wear, and legit to replace, but this one doesnt have the right replacement and it may not be a 501.... It also says 21 jewels which it is not. should be 19 or 20 depending on serial number. So I think there has been a marraige of convenience here.

This is one watch that needs to be inspected out of its case. I'd be wanting to count the jewels, look at the dial back for tell-tale signs of pristine hand rivetting of the markers, checking the serial number and firstly establishing the real calibre.

Dial looks original although pics are not good enough to say for certain. Minute index looked initially as edging a little close to the facets of the Piepan but that may be an optical illusion.

Cheers

desmond Taking a closer look it says 20 jewels, not 21. This other pictures may help.


The case reference stamped on the inside of the caseback is 2852-6-SC This watch looks to have an automatic winding bridge & rotor from a 501. The rest of the movement could be an Omega 505 movement which would have been used in this no-date chronometer-rated Omega Constellation.

The 505 caliber should have the following on the rotor:

OMEGA WATCH Co SWISS
ADJUSTED FIVE (5) POSITIONS
AND TEMPERATURES
TWENTY-FOUR 24 JEWELS

Hence this watch looks a bit "Franken". The crown is a replacement.

I doubt that the dial is original either. It looks like a decent re-dial. ... although this particular one is a frankenwatch, with a possible excuse.

There are plenty of 19-jewel chronometer rated ones out there, so there is a good chance that this watch was originally a Cal. 501. As I previously stated, I believe the cal. 501's were used in case ref. 2852-6, or less.

Desmond is correct, it will take a a complete disassembly to tell the difference between the two versions of the 501 and the 505. Not worth it IMHO.

Just so you don't feel too bad, I have a similar re-dialed frankenwatch:





But I paid very little for it, and I would suggest that you do not overpay for that watch (if you are considering a purchase).

I do have it on pretty good authority that if a Constellation cal. 501 is serviced at Bienne, it will leave looking much like your watch. This is because there are no more 19J "Chronometer Rated" rotor assemblies at Omega. Some of the watches in the upcoming OmegaMania auction are listed as 20J Cal. 501's.

Some have speculated that some of the 20J models were submitted for chronometer rating in 1957, but Omega does not know which ones anymore.

Hope this helps,
gatorcpa
the majority were not chronometer-rated. For this particular watch to have a 501 would be somewhat unlikely. By the way, my sources show the case reference 2852 as using the caliber 505.

Does someone have a verified example of a Constellation using a chronometer-grade 501? If the 501 was used it must have been for a very brief time.

Here's what one would normally expect to see in a Constellation from this period (~1956).



For the original poster if you haven't purchased this watch yet I'd recommend a pass. Let's start with the Omega Database Listing for Ref. 2852 which clearly mentions both versions of the Cal 501:


Here's a listing from a late 1950's Omega catalog:


I think the 19-jewel Cal. 501 was only made from 1955 to 1957, at which point the 20-jewel Cal. 501 and Cal. 505 were introduced. I'll agree that it is far more common in the Seamaster than the Constellation. Of course, far more Seamasters were sold than Constellations.

Alenciso's watch could have been either a 501 or 505 at the start, but based on the "6" version of the case, I'd guess at the 501.

Confusing, isn't it?
gatorcpa


..thanks for great feedback, this watch has belong for the same owner for over 22 yrs, what makes me think also considering your posts that would be original. Comes with original gold plated bracelet(picture is very bad quality). How much would you thing is the market value of this connie? I just don't want to pay more than I should....



I would suggest that you check out "completed items" on eBay.

Due to the questions raised in this thread, I would not pay premium value for the watch, even if the dial were original. It's clear that there has been major work done to the watch.

If the seller had a receipt from Omega Bienne, showing that it was factory serviced in the last few years, I'd raise the price somewhat.

Sorry, but it's the best I can do here,
gatorcpa